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QQ Home  ~  Guild Wars 2 General Discussion  ~  whats fun about having to have someone devoted to trebbing?

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Sunny Melons wrote:
Reverend_Dr wrote:
Cas wrote:
So far everything you all have complained about has proven to be much less a factor than you realize.


It looks more like WoW PvP than I thought it would.


If WoW weren't a gear based game, the PvP probably would be more fun.


Not really no. (I know I'm about to talk about gear, but just assume gear is given rather than grinding for it) Without PvP (resilience) gear then so many classes are capable of 2-3 shotting classes making the game practically an exercise in pushing buttons faster. With PvP gear, then it actually becomes difficult to score kills and either your whole team coordinates blowing every cooldown they have giving them a brief window to kill or you very slowly whittle away their healer's mana bar until they are unable to cast heals. According to old vanilla PvPer's the PvP used to be a lot better back before the expansions added in a whole bunch of, well, powercreep.
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Skanky wrote:
Image

TEAM QQ JUST TOO GOOD. Also, I assume anet won the "tournament"? amirite? I stopped watching after screenshot.


Do you have a VoD to said video screenshot?
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Reverend_Dr wrote:
Not really no. (I know I'm about to talk about gear, but just assume gear is given rather than grinding for it) Without PvP (resilience) gear then so many classes are capable of 2-3 shotting classes making the game practically an exercise in pushing buttons faster. With PvP gear, then it actually becomes difficult to score kills and either your whole team coordinates blowing every cooldown they have giving them a brief window to kill or you very slowly whittle away their healer's mana bar until they are unable to cast heals. According to old vanilla PvPer's the PvP used to be a lot better back before the expansions added in a whole bunch of, well, powercreep.

I'm completely puzzled by your post. Vanilla PvPers in which game? Vanilla WoW PvP was retarded. And I'm pretty sure the person mentioning gear as a weak point of WoW wasn't talking about resilience.
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Problem with WoW pvp is that it lack any depth. Gear is not so hard to get. Took me 4 months from buying the game to 2,2k raiting in arena = max pvp gear available. Real problem is that Arena is just... death-match. Its like team arena. Competitive and fun but on the longer run its just as Reverend_Dr said
Quote:
to score kills and either your whole team coordinates blowing every cooldown they have giving them a brief window to kill or you very slowly whittle away their healer's mana bar until they are unable to cast heals

It lack this GvG feeling that apart from regular pvp stuff u need to do something else and its often more important then just kill shit.

Rated battlegrounds are very similar to what GW2 pvp looks like. They are kinda fucked up tho coz its 10vs10. WoW is not balanced for that big pvp. There is simply to much dmg and its a lot more about zerging middle and turtling. Maps are also much more open and bigger then what we saw so far in GW2 where fight is like in the middle of town and only good spots from where u check what is going on are clocktower and treb.

I think GW2 pvp are similar to rated bg's but improved and stripped from huge zerging in the middle. Even if it will be 5vs5 sometimes it looks much less zergy then what it is in BG's. I hope other maps will offer flag running and maybe some other shrines which will give extra dmg or defence.
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Cas wrote:
I feel like GW1 players, Phelann and others, who think they are old-school for some reason, are running out of things to bitch about. So far everything you all have complained about has proven to be much less a factor than you realize. Now we see more map objectives other than the capture points, and you must bitch about that.

"Trebuchet could add more interesting mechanics to the game while at the same time bringing back a somewhat familiar GW 1 mechanic. O WAIT THIS ISNT GW 1 ITS GONNA SUCK!!!11!11!!"

So sad to see some well known members of the game trashing this one before they have any information/experience to bitch about, it really does make the community from the 1st game look like a bunch of stuck up snobs (i.e. HoN players)


I actually don't think any of this is a fair statement. There is a lot about guild wars one that I think needed o go. One of these things is a dedicated flag runner. Yes flag running added a lot of inte resting dynamics but actually playing the flag runner was a lot less fun than other chars. I like the idea of more objectives to fight over. I dont like the idea of one dedicated treb person it makes things a lot less dynamicthan i would prefer.

I have also btw made a lot of posiive comments about guiodwars two. You need to stop assuming anyone who says something negative is complaining for the sake of complaining. I'm definitely getting he game and think it looks fun. I still think a dedicated treb person looks lame though

Typed on phone so I sound retarded
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Jonas wrote:
Skanky wrote:
Image

TEAM QQ JUST TOO GOOD. Also, I assume anet won the "tournament"? amirite? I stopped watching after screenshot.


Do you have a VoD to said video screenshot?


Negative =[

But blue was kicking the shit out of both the teams they played. I guess previous gw1 experience helped win them the game(s).
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Phelann wrote:
Cas wrote:
I feel like GW1 players, Phelann and others, who think they are old-school for some reason, are running out of things to bitch about. So far everything you all have complained about has proven to be much less a factor than you realize. Now we see more map objectives other than the capture points, and you must bitch about that.

"Trebuchet could add more interesting mechanics to the game while at the same time bringing back a somewhat familiar GW 1 mechanic. O WAIT THIS ISNT GW 1 ITS GONNA SUCK!!!11!11!!"

So sad to see some well known members of the game trashing this one before they have any information/experience to bitch about, it really does make the community from the 1st game look like a bunch of stuck up snobs (i.e. HoN players)


I actually don't think any of this is a fair statement. There is a lot about guild wars one that I think needed o go. One of these things is a dedicated flag runner. Yes flag running added a lot of inte resting dynamics but actually playing the flag runner was a lot less fun than other chars. I like the idea of more objectives to fight over. I dont like the idea of one dedicated treb person it makes things a lot less dynamicthan i would prefer.

I have also btw made a lot of posiive comments about guiodwars two. You need to stop assuming anyone who says something negative is complaining for the sake of complaining. I'm definitely getting he game and think it looks fun. I still think a dedicated treb person looks lame though

Typed on phone so I sound retarded


The trebuchet is designed to make the game MORE dynamic, not less. My guess is that it is to prevent teams from 5v5ing on a single shrine because if they do they will both take catapults to the face.

Now I don't think that forcing a team to dedicate one character to a trebuchet is something that should be encouraged in a game that is fun to play. This can be accomplished in a couple different ways.

1) Make a guy that is manning the trebuchet approximately as valuable to the team as that same character not manning the trebuchet. So instead of manning the trebuchet becoming a task, it becomes a decision. Will it be better for us to have a trebuchet right now, or a character? If the answer to the previous question was the trebuchet, what character are we going to trade for said trebuchet?

2) Make the trebuchet relatively easy to disable. In that sense disabling the trebuchet becomes another objective, just like capping a flag in GW or capping a shrine. Only instead of providing a morale boost you get to have a fucking trebuchet

3) Make it so that a team can control the trebuchet without dedicating a character to controlling it. So it'd be like NPC's in GW1, providing defenders with an advantage and automatically firing on dudes that come too close. It's sort of not good game design, because ideally the optimal game strategy would not be 5v5ing on the center shrine without the catapult.

EDIT: Fixed spelling to avoid further trolls


Last edited by Jonas on Aug 27 2011, 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jonas wrote:
Phelann wrote:
Cas wrote:
I feel like GW1 players, Phelann and others, who think they are old-school for some reason, are running out of things to bitch about. So far everything you all have complained about has proven to be much less a factor than you realize. Now we see more map objectives other than the capture points, and you must bitch about that.

"Trebuchet could add more interesting mechanics to the game while at the same time bringing back a somewhat familiar GW 1 mechanic. O WAIT THIS ISNT GW 1 ITS GONNA SUCK!!!11!11!!"

So sad to see some well known members of the game trashing this one before they have any information/experience to bitch about, it really does make the community from the 1st game look like a bunch of stuck up snobs (i.e. HoN players)



I actually don't think any of this is a fair statement. There is a lot about guild wars one that I think needed o go. One of these things is a dedicated flag runner. Yes flag running added a lot of inte resting dynamics but actually playing the flag runner was a lot less fun than other chars. I like the idea of more objectives to fight over. I dont like the idea of one dedicated treb person it makes things a lot less dynamicthan i would prefer.

I have also btw made a lot of posiive comments about guiodwars two. You need to stop assuming anyone who says something negative is complaining for the sake of complaining. I'm definitely getting he game and think it looks fun. I still think a dedicated treb person looks lame though

Typed on phone so I sound retarded


The trebucket is designed to make the game MORE dynamic, not less. My guess is that it is to prevent teams from 5v5ing on a single shrine because if they do they will both take catapults to the face.

Now I don't think that forcing a team to dedicate one character to a trebucket is something that should be encouraged in a game that is fun to play. This can be accomplished in a couple different ways.

1) Make a guy that is manning the trebucket approximately as valuable to the team as that same character not manning the trebucket. So instead of manning the trebucket becoming a task, it becomes a decision. Will it be better for us to have a trebucket right now, or a character? If the answer to the previous question was the trebucket, what character are we going to trade for said trebucket?

2) Make the trebucket relatively easy to disable. In that sense disabling the trebucket becomes another objective, just like capping a flag in GW or capping a shrine. Only instead of providing a morale boost you get to have a fucking trebucket

3) Make it so that a team can control the trebucket without dedicating a character to controlling it. So it'd be like NPC's in GW1, providing defenders with an advantage and automatically firing on dudes that come too close. It's sort of not good game design, because ideally the optimal game strategy would not be 5v5ing on the center shrine without the catapult.


I agree with this post completely.
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Jonas wrote:
trebucket.


Aside from that I agree with the majority of the post, also yes phelann has only had positive things to say about gw2 as far as ive read, wouldnt jump the gun on him.
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Phelann wrote:
I dont like the idea of one dedicated treb person it makes things a lot less dynamic than i would prefer.


The difference between flag running and treb shooting is that with flag running you were really only responsible for 3 things. Don't die, call for ganks, and keep the flag captured. This can easily get super boring if you have no one to defend against and have to continuously cap the flag because your team hasn't killed their runner yet.

But for GW2, unless your team has a really pro treb shooter or is just really bad at tactics, no one on your team will be "dedicated" to shooting the treb. There will always be somewhere else you need to be, unless the other team has given up. And even as the pro treb shooter, the other team will never let you just sit on the treb because of the drastic effect it has on the map.

Jim1 wrote:
Reverend_Dr wrote:
Not really no. (I know I'm about to talk about gear, but just assume gear is given rather than grinding for it) blarghity blargh WoW...


I'm completely puzzled by your post. Vanilla PvPers in which game? Vanilla WoW PvP was retarded. And I'm pretty sure the person mentioning gear as a weak point of WoW wasn't talking about resilience.


WoW is a game where every class is made to be pretty much OP. Unless you're an experimental person, the chances that you have the same exact skills as another player are high. So if you haven't made yourself macros, geared yourself out or have other good people to play with, you'll be at a huge disadvantage.

WoW PvP sucks because of the reasons mentioned above. I was trying to point out that the only way GW2 PvP could be comparable to WoW PvP is if you were comparing the simplicity of objectives.
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Jackie R Pro Mawnk wrote:
Jonas wrote:
trebucket.



whatever
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You can't cap or revive if your sitting firing a treb. As long as its well balanced I don't see a problem. I imagine there are times when you might need it to break a turtle on a point, but its also gonna mean somebody is fighting 1v2, and if they die they gonna be bleedin out or stomped.

Might be cool if they developed the idea of the Cata destroying parts of the map to open new routes or just allow more line of sight shiz. Might be cool if the Cata could destroy a gate to allow faster access to a point, as long as you need to actually invest a decent amount of time into destroying the gate and the enemy team then has the option of repairing it. Might be cool to see teams having to decide between repairing their gate to slow down peeps trying to reach their point or repairing their cata. Or something.

Might be cool.
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Phelann wrote:
Cas wrote:
I feel like GW1 players, Phelann and others, who think they are old-school for some reason, are running out of things to bitch about. So far everything you all have complained about has proven to be much less a factor than you realize. Now we see more map objectives other than the capture points, and you must bitch about that.

"Trebuchet could add more interesting mechanics to the game while at the same time bringing back a somewhat familiar GW 1 mechanic. O WAIT THIS ISNT GW 1 ITS GONNA SUCK!!!11!11!!"

So sad to see some well known members of the game trashing this one before they have any information/experience to bitch about, it really does make the community from the 1st game look like a bunch of stuck up snobs (i.e. HoN players)


I actually don't think any of this is a fair statement. There is a lot about guild wars one that I think needed o go. One of these things is a dedicated flag runner. Yes flag running added a lot of inte resting dynamics but actually playing the flag runner was a lot less fun than other chars. I like the idea of more objectives to fight over. I dont like the idea of one dedicated treb person it makes things a lot less dynamicthan i would prefer.

I have also btw made a lot of posiive comments about guiodwars two. You need to stop assuming anyone who says something negative is complaining for the sake of complaining. I'm definitely getting he game and think it looks fun. I still think a dedicated treb person looks lame though

Typed on phone so I sound retarded


Fair enough, but as has been stated in this thread a few times since this post, I believe the trebuchet will make the map more dynamic and I'm not sure why everyone was trashing it like they were. And as I said before, I believe if someone is going to let you have a "dedicated treber" they probably won't deserve to win anyway.

Should have stated my point more eloquently.
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I agree with jonas's first and second suggestions, and think they are very good ideas, but I'm going to do everything within my power to make sure the third one doesn't happen. there's already a flying dragon that does shit to everyone, we don't need some aim bot shooting a catapult at people.
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Tearz wrote:
I agree with jonas's first and second suggestions, and think they are very good ideas, but I'm going to do everything within my power to make sure the third one doesn't happen. there's already a flying dragon that does shit to everyone, we don't need some aim bot shooting a catapult at people.


Yeah I hope that the 3rd one doesn't happen, either (hence the "not very good game design" comment) because it'd be pretty stupid. But IMO it'd be better than 1 character in your team of 5 players having to stay back and play fucking battleship in this fast-paced MMO game

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